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	<title>Comments for One Pastor&#039;s Thoughts: Rev. Joey Reed, OSL</title>
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	<description>find. think. learn.</description>
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		<title>Comment on Low Miles, Excellent Condition: Young Leaders in the UMC by Low Miles, Excellent Condition: Young Leaders in the UMC » One &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=854&#038;cpage=1#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Low Miles, Excellent Condition: Young Leaders in the UMC » One &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2012 15:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Excerpted Recommended PASTOR LEADERS article FROM http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=854 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Excerpted Recommended PASTOR LEADERS article FROM <a href="http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=854" rel="nofollow">http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=854</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Two Wrongs: Still Don&#8217;t Make a Right After All This Time by Rick</title>
		<link>http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=822&#038;cpage=1#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 03:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=822#comment-159</guid>
		<description>I agree with you, Joey.

During General Conference a (white) clergy member actually tweeted, &quot;Black Christians use faith to survive. White Christians use it to oppress.&quot;  That is not only racist and divisive but outlandish!

My favorite tweet was from a black woman who said, &quot;Can we stop racial profiling? All white men are not enemies and All people of color r not victims.&quot;  Amen, sister.  The best thing we can do for minorities is to stop thinking of them as minorities as start thinking of them as just people.

Stop counting how many black people and white people are in the choir and just enjoy the music.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, Joey.</p>
<p>During General Conference a (white) clergy member actually tweeted, &#8220;Black Christians use faith to survive. White Christians use it to oppress.&#8221;  That is not only racist and divisive but outlandish!</p>
<p>My favorite tweet was from a black woman who said, &#8220;Can we stop racial profiling? All white men are not enemies and All people of color r not victims.&#8221;  Amen, sister.  The best thing we can do for minorities is to stop thinking of them as minorities as start thinking of them as just people.</p>
<p>Stop counting how many black people and white people are in the choir and just enjoy the music.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Two Wrongs: Still Don&#8217;t Make a Right After All This Time by Joey</title>
		<link>http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=822&#038;cpage=1#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 17:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=822#comment-158</guid>
		<description>I understand your concerns, Becca. Really, I do. I&#039;ve been raising some of these issues for a while now. I wrote this blog not in defense of a flawed system, but in an effort to process the same sort of dismissive behavior that is at the root of our conversations on both sides.

I agree that the broad brush is bad. I agree that more women and minorities could stand to be involved. I also agree that the system is flawed -- but only in that people are flawed. 

I disagree with the premise that a white middle-aged man cannot adequately represent a young black woman. I similarly disavow the notion that I cannot be represented fairly by that same young black woman. If a young black lesbian is running for an office and she is better qualified, she should get the position. The problem is when she doesn&#039;t get the position despite being better qualified -- or, getting the position when she is not.


While voices are important, I don&#039;t have a problem with 6 women under the age of 35 running an agency. To say that they can&#039;t adequately represent male voices denies their ability to be fully human.

What matters is the integrity of the person. What matters is the ability of the person. What matters is the willingness to seek God&#039;s will. 

We seem to have a problem believing that some of the folks in charge are deciding things for the right reasons. We question motives. We assume agendas. We presume guilt.

My exhortation here is for all of our members, clergy and lay, delegate and non-delegate, to fully examine the credentials of a leader, to give full hearing to their words, and to lay aside (as much as any of us can) our prejudices and stereotypes.

We cannot continue to allow ourselves to be deafened by the color of skin, the gender of persons, or the number of rings you might count if you were to cut off a leg. 

Galatians 3:28 means everyone or it means no one.


Grace and peace,

Joey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand your concerns, Becca. Really, I do. I&#8217;ve been raising some of these issues for a while now. I wrote this blog not in defense of a flawed system, but in an effort to process the same sort of dismissive behavior that is at the root of our conversations on both sides.</p>
<p>I agree that the broad brush is bad. I agree that more women and minorities could stand to be involved. I also agree that the system is flawed &#8212; but only in that people are flawed. </p>
<p>I disagree with the premise that a white middle-aged man cannot adequately represent a young black woman. I similarly disavow the notion that I cannot be represented fairly by that same young black woman. If a young black lesbian is running for an office and she is better qualified, she should get the position. The problem is when she doesn&#8217;t get the position despite being better qualified &#8212; or, getting the position when she is not.</p>
<p>While voices are important, I don&#8217;t have a problem with 6 women under the age of 35 running an agency. To say that they can&#8217;t adequately represent male voices denies their ability to be fully human.</p>
<p>What matters is the integrity of the person. What matters is the ability of the person. What matters is the willingness to seek God&#8217;s will. </p>
<p>We seem to have a problem believing that some of the folks in charge are deciding things for the right reasons. We question motives. We assume agendas. We presume guilt.</p>
<p>My exhortation here is for all of our members, clergy and lay, delegate and non-delegate, to fully examine the credentials of a leader, to give full hearing to their words, and to lay aside (as much as any of us can) our prejudices and stereotypes.</p>
<p>We cannot continue to allow ourselves to be deafened by the color of skin, the gender of persons, or the number of rings you might count if you were to cut off a leg. </p>
<p>Galatians 3:28 means everyone or it means no one.</p>
<p>Grace and peace,</p>
<p>Joey</p>
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		<title>Comment on Two Wrongs: Still Don&#8217;t Make a Right After All This Time by Becca Clark</title>
		<link>http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=822&#038;cpage=1#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>Becca Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 13:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=822#comment-157</guid>
		<description>Hi Joey, 

It was a rough couple of weeks. Yes, a lot of us answered the pain we experienced with pain of our own, and a lot of us used humor or sarcasm to deflect or cope when the situation got tough. 

On the subject of sexism, ageism, and racism, I think there&#039;s a difference between naming privilege and retaliating with racism, sexism, etc. It might be a fine line to some, but for me it&#039;s clear and as wide as the grand canyon. 

For example: I have on occasion had a prejudice against people with, um, southern accents. I tend to assume that they are going to be more conservative than myself. But lately in my life, I&#039;ve been meeting people who find me conservative (okay moderate. ish) with southern accents. Can&#039;t paint the south with a broad brush. Got it. 

I do not believe that all straight white older males are out to oppress other people. But I&#039;ve noticed that a large majority of the people who are arguing against inclusion and protection of things like GCORR and GCOSROW are in fact people I perceive to be white, older, and male. For example, when we debated about sexuality in general, there were 4 female speakers and 25 male speakers-- that&#039;s total, both sides of the conversation. That&#039;s not right or wrong in terms of content, but suggests a flawed process by which men have been given more voice. By my unofficial count, all of the people arguing for the dismantling of GCORR and COSROW were white, and about 75% were male. 

All this is to say that i think there is a very real problem here. In my committee we debated whether or not people might feel safe speaking and voting when it came to sensitive issues. Every single person who thought we had a safe space was someone I perceived to be a white man. That&#039;s not racism; that&#039;s privilege. They are allowed to feel safe, because they are with the group that hold the power. With power comes responsibility to empower other voices and provide safe space for them. 

It&#039;s a nuanced thing, and I feel a blog post coming on (it has to get in line!). I just want to say that my observations abut the way some older white males were holding and wielding power are not a commentary on all white male persons over 60, but a commentary on a system that privileges certain voices over others. 

Peace, 
Becca</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Joey, </p>
<p>It was a rough couple of weeks. Yes, a lot of us answered the pain we experienced with pain of our own, and a lot of us used humor or sarcasm to deflect or cope when the situation got tough. </p>
<p>On the subject of sexism, ageism, and racism, I think there&#8217;s a difference between naming privilege and retaliating with racism, sexism, etc. It might be a fine line to some, but for me it&#8217;s clear and as wide as the grand canyon. </p>
<p>For example: I have on occasion had a prejudice against people with, um, southern accents. I tend to assume that they are going to be more conservative than myself. But lately in my life, I&#8217;ve been meeting people who find me conservative (okay moderate. ish) with southern accents. Can&#8217;t paint the south with a broad brush. Got it. </p>
<p>I do not believe that all straight white older males are out to oppress other people. But I&#8217;ve noticed that a large majority of the people who are arguing against inclusion and protection of things like GCORR and GCOSROW are in fact people I perceive to be white, older, and male. For example, when we debated about sexuality in general, there were 4 female speakers and 25 male speakers&#8211; that&#8217;s total, both sides of the conversation. That&#8217;s not right or wrong in terms of content, but suggests a flawed process by which men have been given more voice. By my unofficial count, all of the people arguing for the dismantling of GCORR and COSROW were white, and about 75% were male. </p>
<p>All this is to say that i think there is a very real problem here. In my committee we debated whether or not people might feel safe speaking and voting when it came to sensitive issues. Every single person who thought we had a safe space was someone I perceived to be a white man. That&#8217;s not racism; that&#8217;s privilege. They are allowed to feel safe, because they are with the group that hold the power. With power comes responsibility to empower other voices and provide safe space for them. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a nuanced thing, and I feel a blog post coming on (it has to get in line!). I just want to say that my observations abut the way some older white males were holding and wielding power are not a commentary on all white male persons over 60, but a commentary on a system that privileges certain voices over others. </p>
<p>Peace,<br />
Becca</p>
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		<title>Comment on How to Be Prolific Online in a Couple of Hours a Week by Joey</title>
		<link>http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=764&#038;cpage=1#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 03:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=764#comment-155</guid>
		<description>News to me. Thanks Ken! I&#039;ll check these out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>News to me. Thanks Ken! I&#8217;ll check these out!</p>
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		<title>Comment on How to Be Prolific Online in a Couple of Hours a Week by Ken Szeto</title>
		<link>http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=764&#038;cpage=1#comment-140</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Szeto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2012 21:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=764#comment-140</guid>
		<description>Joey, are you familiar with these free internet evangelism e-books and resources?
http://www.internetevangelismday.com/free-christian-ebook-downloads.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joey, are you familiar with these free internet evangelism e-books and resources?<br />
<a href="http://www.internetevangelismday.com/free-christian-ebook-downloads.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.internetevangelismday.com/free-christian-ebook-downloads.php</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Does Not Compute: Metrics are Bad? by Joey</title>
		<link>http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=752&#038;cpage=1#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=752#comment-87</guid>
		<description>Stan, 

We agree on so many points! I&#039;ve been tamping down my cynicism regarding our structures and administration for years. And I&#039;ve often felt like a vital, organized, getting-it-done leader only to discover that I was out for a walk with no one behind me. After those terrifying and humiliating experiences, it was much easier to see that happening in our structures around me to DSs and Bishops alike.

Call to Action is the first time in years -- maybe ever -- that the overworked and all too &quot;elsewhere oriented&quot; schedules of our episcopal leaders is being addressed. And it is the first legislation that has a chance to bring productive change to an overdeveloped &quot;multi-silo&quot; organization.

It may sound strange, but the fact that you&#039;ve gotten some hope out of this gives me a little more hope myself! Thanks for the post and the insightful comments, Stan.


Grace and peace,

Joey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stan, </p>
<p>We agree on so many points! I&#8217;ve been tamping down my cynicism regarding our structures and administration for years. And I&#8217;ve often felt like a vital, organized, getting-it-done leader only to discover that I was out for a walk with no one behind me. After those terrifying and humiliating experiences, it was much easier to see that happening in our structures around me to DSs and Bishops alike.</p>
<p>Call to Action is the first time in years &#8212; maybe ever &#8212; that the overworked and all too &#8220;elsewhere oriented&#8221; schedules of our episcopal leaders is being addressed. And it is the first legislation that has a chance to bring productive change to an overdeveloped &#8220;multi-silo&#8221; organization.</p>
<p>It may sound strange, but the fact that you&#8217;ve gotten some hope out of this gives me a little more hope myself! Thanks for the post and the insightful comments, Stan.</p>
<p>Grace and peace,</p>
<p>Joey</p>
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		<title>Comment on Does Not Compute: Metrics are Bad? by Joey</title>
		<link>http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=752&#038;cpage=1#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=752#comment-85</guid>
		<description>Ken,

First, thanks for your thoughts. I&#039;m VERY interested in your ideas about spiritual leadership and followership. I&#039;m a big Len Sweet fan, and he has put his finger on the same notion: We lack the desire to be true followers of Christ in so many ways.

Grace and peace,

Joey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken,</p>
<p>First, thanks for your thoughts. I&#8217;m VERY interested in your ideas about spiritual leadership and followership. I&#8217;m a big Len Sweet fan, and he has put his finger on the same notion: We lack the desire to be true followers of Christ in so many ways.</p>
<p>Grace and peace,</p>
<p>Joey</p>
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		<title>Comment on Does Not Compute: Metrics are Bad? by Stan McDaniel</title>
		<link>http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=752&#038;cpage=1#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan McDaniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=752#comment-76</guid>
		<description>Joey, excellent article. However, I put the load on the people who have the power in our denomination. Yes, pastors are to be accountable. What i learned at Candler was that my learning and growth never stops with the graduation and the ordination. Candler taught me that my spiritual growth was now my obligation to myself, my churches to whom I was entrusted, and to my denominations. I do have some authority, but it is equal to where I am in the UMC structure. I believe the Cabinet has so much more authority than I do and the the Council; of Bishops have even more. However, the material coming out about ineffective clergy is directed toward the pastors in the pulpit. No wonder that some are skeptical about &quot;The Call.&quot; During my 30 years, I soon discovered that I was the main one hawking the UM Report subscriptions. I was the one trying to make sure that apportionments were paid 100%. I was the one who had to promote every cause and fad the UMC attached itself to in any given time. That is another reason &quot;The Call&quot; is views with bemused attitudes. It appears to be another fad. We are always 10 years behind other denominations. We have learned longer pastorates were benefical to churches waaayyy after the Baptists had been doing it. We latched onto praise songs (The Faith We Sing) longer after other churches had been singing them. We jumped onto contemporary worship only after other denominations had perfected the worship style. Leadership from the Council and the Cabinet goes unexamined.  &quot;Call to Action&quot; is directed at the ones for those who do not have the authority to make it happen. Indeed, the recording of statistics seems to show that pastors cannot be trusted. I think the Cabinet needs to be seen and experienced more in the local church by the people in the pew. An absentee Bishop will never hear the sly jokes from congregations. The result is that congregations still feel removed from the ordained in power, the Cabinet and the Council. However....your article....is making me think this might work, but only if all levels of UMC structure are involved and accoutnable. Otherwise, what we will get will be inflated numbers, just like when our apportionments had membership figured into the equation years ago. Thank you for a different take on &quot;The Call.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joey, excellent article. However, I put the load on the people who have the power in our denomination. Yes, pastors are to be accountable. What i learned at Candler was that my learning and growth never stops with the graduation and the ordination. Candler taught me that my spiritual growth was now my obligation to myself, my churches to whom I was entrusted, and to my denominations. I do have some authority, but it is equal to where I am in the UMC structure. I believe the Cabinet has so much more authority than I do and the the Council; of Bishops have even more. However, the material coming out about ineffective clergy is directed toward the pastors in the pulpit. No wonder that some are skeptical about &#8220;The Call.&#8221; During my 30 years, I soon discovered that I was the main one hawking the UM Report subscriptions. I was the one trying to make sure that apportionments were paid 100%. I was the one who had to promote every cause and fad the UMC attached itself to in any given time. That is another reason &#8220;The Call&#8221; is views with bemused attitudes. It appears to be another fad. We are always 10 years behind other denominations. We have learned longer pastorates were benefical to churches waaayyy after the Baptists had been doing it. We latched onto praise songs (The Faith We Sing) longer after other churches had been singing them. We jumped onto contemporary worship only after other denominations had perfected the worship style. Leadership from the Council and the Cabinet goes unexamined.  &#8220;Call to Action&#8221; is directed at the ones for those who do not have the authority to make it happen. Indeed, the recording of statistics seems to show that pastors cannot be trusted. I think the Cabinet needs to be seen and experienced more in the local church by the people in the pew. An absentee Bishop will never hear the sly jokes from congregations. The result is that congregations still feel removed from the ordained in power, the Cabinet and the Council. However&#8230;.your article&#8230;.is making me think this might work, but only if all levels of UMC structure are involved and accoutnable. Otherwise, what we will get will be inflated numbers, just like when our apportionments had membership figured into the equation years ago. Thank you for a different take on &#8220;The Call.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Does Not Compute: Metrics are Bad? by Ken L. Hagler</title>
		<link>http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=752&#038;cpage=1#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken L. Hagler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2012 01:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ijoey.org/blog/?p=752#comment-75</guid>
		<description>Good thoughts.  I agree that accountability truly is key.  It has to be across the board however - not just clergy and local churches BUT the boards and agencies.  How will these areas be dealt with?  How can we create more vital congregations, explore and create new ministries when local church funds are drained (not always, we do good stuff that NEEDS our support) to support projects that do not achieve our stated goal of disciple making.  

Your questions:  &quot;So why aren’t we growing? Why aren’t we thriving?&quot; is not so simple I think.  I think we may all have some differing thoughts on this.  For me, I look at so little care being put into the spiritual life, the formation of our clergy and lay leader in the realm of their spiritual life.  We couch it in terms of &quot;spiritual leaders&quot; or &quot;servant leaders&quot; but it is still &quot;leadership.&quot;  What I see lacking, is little care or desire to really be either spiritual or servants and so we have little genuine product to offer.  Just my .02</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good thoughts.  I agree that accountability truly is key.  It has to be across the board however &#8211; not just clergy and local churches BUT the boards and agencies.  How will these areas be dealt with?  How can we create more vital congregations, explore and create new ministries when local church funds are drained (not always, we do good stuff that NEEDS our support) to support projects that do not achieve our stated goal of disciple making.  </p>
<p>Your questions:  &#8220;So why aren’t we growing? Why aren’t we thriving?&#8221; is not so simple I think.  I think we may all have some differing thoughts on this.  For me, I look at so little care being put into the spiritual life, the formation of our clergy and lay leader in the realm of their spiritual life.  We couch it in terms of &#8220;spiritual leaders&#8221; or &#8220;servant leaders&#8221; but it is still &#8220;leadership.&#8221;  What I see lacking, is little care or desire to really be either spiritual or servants and so we have little genuine product to offer.  Just my .02</p>
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